#30 – Advice to My Younger Self

Join Dez and Mel as they explore the wisdom they would share with their younger selves across topics like relationships, money, identity, and parenting. This conversation offers insights on personal growth, self-trust, and embracing every phase of life.

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Transcript

Introduction to Advice for Our Younger Selves

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Road Back Podcast. We're so glad you're here. I'm Melissa and I'm Desiree. We're two trauma-informed coaches and real life friends.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

If you're returning to yourself, your dreams, or your sense of belovedness, this podcast is for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

We'll pull from our own stories and hard-earned wisdom to support your journey. So take a breath and remember, you belong exactly as you are.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

A few weeks ago I posted a TikTok called Advice to My 20-year-old self. And I was sharing some fun nuggets of wisdom that I would want my younger self to have known. And then shortly after that, I thought, man, Design I should do a podcast around advice we would give to our younger selves. Now that we are solidly in middle age and have some years behind us, we both realized we had some things that we wished we had known 10, 15, 20, even 30 years ago. So welcome to today's episode on advice we'd give to our younger selves.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

I love it because I have a 20-year-old son. So when you talk about like advice I'd give my 20-year-old self, sometimes I'll see my kids in stages and phases of their life. And I'm like, whoa, I was like this. Like, what is it like for me to remember that age of myself as I'm seeing my kids grow and mature and make choices for their life? I think this is like such a fun episode. And it's probably pretty tender and pretty personal in a lot of ways, but I think it it can be very relatable. And I know that I've learned so much by parenting and watching my kids grow about what messaging I even needed to hear in those in those stages and things I didn't know and things that didn't feel sure to me. So I'm loved that we're doing this.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I think it's going to be fun. And you were talking about your kids being, you know, your son being 20. I remember even when my kids have turned, you know, I have a 17 and an 18-year-old, and then I have an 11-year-old, them hitting certain milestones that to me, in my brain, when I was their age, I felt so grown up. But looking at them from the outside in, I realize how much development they still have to go. That's that's been wild. And I remember when my oldest son hit the age that I did when my mom died, like I'm talking about tenderness. I was like, oh wow, perspective looking at some of those things of how I felt so

Reflections on Parenting and Personal Growth

SPEAKER_01 2:42

forced to grow up so quickly in a situation like that. But then it was actually a fresh kind of processing of the grief of it all when he hit the age I was, because I had just turned 13. And so it was just very interesting to look back and see how much of a little kid I actually still was, even though I felt like I had had to grow up so much during that season. Parenting is incredibly enlightening when you, especially when you're looking through the lens of personal growth and reparenting our younger selves and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I love that you named it that way because I I do feel like parenthood is the school of my life to learn more about myself and to it really invites me into deeper self-reflection. And while I'm parenting them, I'm also reparenting myself.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So what we're gonna do today is we're gonna split our conversation into about four parts. We're gonna talk about advice we would have given to our younger selves around relationships, things we would have said to our younger selves around money, our identity, our femininity, and even our parenting. And then who knows, we might throw some extra nuggets in there just for free. Just who knows?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

We might just start throwing things at you guys. Once we get on a roll, you never know what's gonna come out of our mouths. So real. Okay, so let's start with relationships. Mel, what is something that your younger self, and maybe you could even find the age of yourself. What do

Lessons on Relationships and Loyalty

SPEAKER_00 4:08

you think she needed to hear about relationships that she didn't know?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I'm sure there were many things, but one in particular that stood out was her loyalty to people. And I would even go so far as to spread it into things like workplace, other environments that she was a part of. She needed to hear that she was allowed to move on from a relationship or a job or an environment simply because she was ready to move on. She didn't have to wait for something to go majorly wrong or to become extremely toxic before she was allowed to make up her mind and make a change because she was incredibly loyal. And my loyalty has always been something that I've been very praised for throughout my life. And so I took a lot of pride in my loyalty and it had some wonderful strength, but also on the flip side, left unchecked, it caused me to stay in certain environments and situations much longer than I should have because I didn't really feel permission to move on unless something went bad. It had to become really toxic in order for me to feel like, oh, okay, I'm ready to move on. And so I wish she had known she had permission just to be ready to recognize when something had run its course and then move on. And at a she stayed in situations to the point where they became detrimental to her emotional health. It wasn't good in the long term, but it was her loyalty keeping there often.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah. I mean, when I hear that, I'm like, oh, I wonder if loyalty felt a little bit like gaslighting yourself. Cause you even corrected yourself. You're like, it was definitely bad and it was definitely hard at times. But there's that kind of like loyalty, it trumps the self-knowing of this is kind of bad, or this is just not working out, or like that self-intuition of, I think I'm ready to move on.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

I I was the queen of gaslighting myself, but didn't realize I was. I just didn't know because I had become so in tune with the voices externally telling me what I should think, feel, do, how I should behave. I didn't know how to give myself permission to make decisions. And so there were certain times that I stayed in environments that were toxic and I didn't realize and it had to get so bad until it finally got to the point where I was like, okay, even my level of loyalty can't handle this anymore. I need to move on. And other times it was just simply not understanding that something could run its course and it didn't have to be bad. It could just be for a season. So I tried to make a season often last longer than was healthy or necessary

Understanding Self-Worth in Relationships

SPEAKER_01 6:43

simply because I didn't, and it probably was a gaslighting myself. I just really wasn't in tune with what was going on with my inner world a lot of the time. And so I let other people's expectations guide my decisions. And if I was a good worker, I was a good friend, or I was a good girlfriend, I mean, people didn't want me to leave. And so I if I left it up to them, then they would have kept me there indefinitely. That was at times a costly lesson for me to learn how to begin to tune into that inner voice and the inner knowing that for many years I didn't do. And so it's definitely a piece of advice I would have loved her to know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

That's so beautiful. I just want to say, like, for someone who's grown and probably your self-intuition and self-trust and the self-knowing is one of your biggest strengths. What a beautiful moment for me to see this version of you telling her that. I just think it's so beautiful, like so full circle and so healing. So it's beautiful, friend. Thanks, girl. She was doing the best she could.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

She was doing the best she could. And it was she really was it was still really costly for her at times. So I wish she'd known that. And it's something I always want to tell people now. You don't have to wait for it to turn bad in order to have permission to make a change.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah. So good. Beautiful. How about you? When I'm reflecting back, I definitely see her at about 18, 19 years old when I became a full-time missionary. But I also see older versions of myself. It's in a lot of ways, I'm still telling myself this. So I think because relationships had such an important value to me that I think I was trying to understand a lot of who I was by the way people were either accepting me or treating me or taking care of me or reciprocating. And so I would just want to tell my younger self, honey, relationships are not you. However, this situation is going, it's just a relationship. It's not the totality of your identity. The way people treat you or don't treat you is really not about you. One thing I would tell her is when you have the space and the safety to really see yourself in these relationship dynamics. I just would want to tell

The Journey of Self-Compassion

SPEAKER_00 9:04

her, like, you're still lovable. When you see all the ways that you played into certain things and you're like, oh my goodness, because I've been there. I'm like, oh my God, what did I do? That's still really lovable. I would want to tell her, like, I'm grateful for all the decisions you made when you thought you were doing the best you knew how to do. And so you're allowed to embrace the reality of who you are, look at yourself honestly and love her unconditionally.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

And move forward. Yeah. This is ministry relationships. This is personal relationships. This is friendships. This is so many parts of this is wrapped up in this. But yeah, I think I that's what I would tell her.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah. Wow. I love that you said you know she really was doing the best she knows how. I think that's been one of the biggest mindset shifts for me around people over the last 15 years of my life. I actually used to believe that people weren't doing their best, including myself. It was always like, oh, you could be doing better, you might not be doing your best. I remember reading Brene Brown's book, Rising Strong. And that book rocked my world because in it she shares this story and how her own perspective shifted because she used to not think everybody was doing her best, including herself. And then she had uh a series of experiences where she actually came to believe that people are doing the best that they know how. And I remember going through that journey with her, even as I read the book, and I thought, yes, I actually do believe that people are doing the best they know how. And it doesn't mean that their best is healthy, and it doesn't mean that their best is even something that I would subject myself to. Correct. But if I can view life through the lens that we are doing the best we know how, it is so much easier for me to be generous in my assumptions of you when you're showing up a certain way. And it's easier to believe the best about me. And then it allows me to get more compassion into situations. And compassion is such a key to healing.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Correct. Yeah. The reason we hold on to if I could do this better or if you could have done this differently, there would be kind of like no pain. We could eliminate all friction in relationships, which is just not possible. So I think that that's a glaring thought of even how I would make a lot of meaning out of whatever they're doing. Of course, it's the best that

Shifting Perspectives on Money and Worth

SPEAKER_00 11:30

they knew to do, but I would create like, oh, that must actually mean that I'm not worth them doing something else. I love this shift because it restores responsibility, like the ownership to the right person. Oh, that's actually their best. And when I talked about like seeing myself honestly, it's like being like, oh, that's actually the best I knew how to. And this common humanity part is we are all doing what we know best to do, probably fundamentally. And we just don't all have the same capacity or the same experiences. My behavior towards you is a reflection of me.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

It's not necessarily a reflection of anything to do with you, which, like you said, puts the responsibility in the right place. And it doesn't necessarily stop the rejection or the pain, or the situations are sticky and relationships are hard. It can still be painful, but it allows me to maybe even become a little less self-centered of like, oh, they're just doing everything to try to hurt me, or there's just all about it's all about me, me, me. It's like, actually, no, people are very self-absorbed and they are doing what they know to do. And when I can be more generous of like, okay, people are doing the best they know how, then that lets me be powerful in my decisions of what am I going to continue to engage in. I don't need to try to control you into behaving a different way. I actually get to go, how am I going to choose to move forward? How am I going to behave? How do I get to grow through this? And I love that you said the personal responsibility aspect of things. I've actually found it to be very empowering because it also meant that I because I used to be so hard on myself. The finish line was always moving. No matter how good of a job I did, if I always believed that I wasn't really doing my best, it's like, well, you could have done better or they could have done better. And it was this constant need to fix, fix, fix, fix, fix.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

The paradigm is like all relationships are proving to me that I'm faulted, that I'm lacking. But it's just such an exhausting and sad reality. And from someone who lived in that reality, which is why I needed to tell her that. Unhooking those meanings of the way people are treating you and that shows me my inherent value changed so much. And it helps be powerful and actually enjoy relationships for what they are.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

And it helped me become better boundary too, because it didn't mean that I had to put up with garbage behavior. Yes. Also, because your best might actually be very toxic. And so that doesn't mean I have to put up with that. It actually helps me go, oh, this is what's in, this is what's out, this is what I will tolerate, this is what I won't tolerate, because I understand that you might be doing the best you know how. And maybe that is very dysfunctional, and maybe you're not ready to confront that and heal. And that's up to you. That's your that's in your responsibility camp. Yes. And what I can then do is choose to make powerful decisions about what I will continue to engage in.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

And that's exactly what it was. It was there's a lot of toxic stuff going on. But because that relationship showed me something about me, I was trying to stay in it and fix it and figure it out. What could I do more of to talking about codependency? Like, what could I what can I fix about me? I belong to the club for many years. Which is that paradigm shift of it going back and restoring agency means I get to choose what's right for me and like being like, oh, that is the best you can do. And I can walk away and choose other relationships and unhook your identity from their behavior.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Absolutely. Yeah. That's fun. Should we talk about money now? Just what would you tell your younger self? What would you tell younger Dez about her money or money in general?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

This one feels like a big, big stretch for Dez because money was very dangerous. It was something I couldn't trust. Even if I had a little bit, it was probably gonna trip me up or go away somehow and bite me in the butt. So this feels like a huge growth. What I'm trying to say is I can see a lot of expansion in my beliefs about it, but I would want to go back to Des. Missionary Dez, who is making very little money. And I was like, that's great. The less is better for me in this situation. But I would want to tell her, Des, you're the one who gets to put the limit on what you're worthy of. And what's possible for you. So

Re-Parenting Moments and Personal Growth

SPEAKER_00 16:00

why not you, sweetheart? Why not you? Yeah. I would tell her that she holds all of the sense of worth and value. It's not even about just money, but the sense of value that she holds. She gets to put the limits. She gets to say, I'm worth this much or not worth this much. And I I didn't ever realize that when I was growing up. So wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Mm-hmm. That's that's tender and beautiful. And I that landed with me when you said that. I I could feel it.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

I just had a flashback of Des in our 20s. I didn't have a car for many years. We we couldn't afford it. And so I had a bike. And I used to take my at the time I only had the two kids. And I would load them up when it was raining. I would load them up when it was 110 outside in my little bike carrier. And I would even pick up other people's kids for them and take them to school on my bike carrier. Oh, honey. And I'm just like thinking, honey, you put the limits. Like you get to hold what you're worth and what you're not worth. And she's been through a lot. So it's pretty expansive to be able to tell her that and to believe that and to find that to be a truth of me now

From Struggles to Triumph: A Journey of Worth

SPEAKER_00 17:23

that I hold inside of me now to offer her.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Wow. I feel a lot of hope in that for people too. From maybe they see themselves in certain parts of that. Maybe they're where you were, maybe they're not quite, maybe they're somewhere on the continuum. But seeing how powerfully embodied the growth you've had, just even in the few years I've known you, of this is what I'm worth and this is what I'm gonna ask for, and being able to get it. And that's just an incredible testimony.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Like before and after is quite amazing.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah, it's quite remarkable. People used to stop me in the in the neighborhood. I live in a small town. They're like, You're the lady on the bike or who walks everywhere. Are you like a health fitness nut? And I just looked at them, I was like, no, I have no money. I was like, I don't have a car. And they were like, What? You don't have a car? And I was like, no, there's there's no car. So you see me walking and you see me riding because I don't have the money for a car. And people were like, Whoa. And now you drive your dream car. Now I'm just showing up like a queen.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

You are. Actually, hearing that story and hearing a bit behind the scenes when you got your car, just in the context today of where you were all those years ago, riding a bike and now driving a beautiful luxury car is just it feels like a testimony. Yeah, it actually feels like

The Emotional Journey of Accepting Worth

SPEAKER_01 18:49

you know what it feels like? It feels like a physical representation of inner healing and growth.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Oh, I'm so glad you said that. What I would speak to my younger self is that you get to decide if you're worth it. You get to, you get to set that level. And when my husband bought me this car. Can we tell the story? Can we tell a little bit of the story? Sure. Okay, tell them all about it. It was time to buy another car because my second daughter was gonna start driving. And I had been driving cars either that were given to me, which is a beautiful gift, or we bought one minivan for ourselves at one point after the no car season when the third kid was coming. And so as we were deciding what to get, my husband's really great at research. He was doing all the behind the scenes. I was really at that point detached from any sense of longing or desiring a car because I had been, I had to, I feel emotional. It felt really vulnerable to want something and to not know if I was gonna be able to get it.

unknown 19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

I had shut down a lot of any sense of I used to think I didn't even need a car. I try to really downplay that. Like it wasn't important. And in the whole scope of life, it is just a car. Like I I totally still hold that. But when it came to buy this, it was such a fun car. And we were so jazzed. Like, tell us about it. Tell us about it. Can we tell them what you're driving? Do you mind telling them? I'm driving a BMW X5. It's a plug-in hybrid. It's very pretty. Well, the thing that makes her so pretty, let me tell you about her. Someone custom ordered this car. They got the extra fancy seats, the most gorgeous Koniak leather, um, the M series brakes, you know, all these fancy, fun stuff, you know? And they put their their money down, but then they decided to not buy it. So it was just on accident that it was in the lot. On the accident, our breath was taken away. And we're really practical people.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

And was it on the list? Like, was BMW on the list of like maybe we'll do it, or did you kind of just go for fun or leave you had actually done the research and said it was on the list, but I was like, never would I like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Like, why would we pay that much money for a car? So when he's like, Do you have a car? And like, sorry, we don't have one. But then he went to go get the keys to drive something else. And he's like, Oh my God, this person did pick up this car and it was this custom-ordered car. Would you want to drive this car? And we're like, Yes, we do. So we walked out, we were like, Oh, it was so pretty. So we get in this car and it is so powerful. Like, I was like, what in the world? From my bike to that, I was like, Who am I? So Levy was so happy. And we decided to buy the car on the spot. And when we were buying this car, I could tell in that moment, I was like, I can't take this car. Like, this car is too good for me. I literally was having a crisis. And I was like, you can take this car. And he's like, What are you talking about? And I'm like, no, this will be your car. I'll drive your the car that you're driving now, and you can take the BMW. And at that time, I wasn't making enough money to pay for the Be in payments. And he's like, what are you talking about? In his mind, it was so clear this was my car, but I couldn't accept it. I was saying what I was worth. I was saying, I'm not worth this car. Like, I don't deserve the car. I don't work and I don't make enough money for this car. This is too valuable for me. This is too special, too much. I was having the deepest crisis. I'm in there and I'm like, I'm not driving this car home. That's why I told my husband. He's like, of course you're gonna drive this car home. I said, I cannot drive this home. He had a, he just like held my face and he said, This is your car. You deserve this. This is for you. It's always been for you. It's never been a question in my mind. And I mean, I try to give that man that car seven to eight times. Like I was like, you take it, you take it. And I'll tell you something. When I drove that car home, I was like, oh, she's mine. I'm never gonna give her back. I'll see if I let my husband borrow it sometimes. And I do. I'm a nice person. But um in that drive home, I accepted it. I said, I'm allowed to accept this gift. And it healed me for me to say, okay, Des, you can receive this. You can actually let this in as a gift and receive it. And I think that's why when we talked about in former episodes about part of the vulnerability is receiving, I'm so honest. This was just two years ago. And it's leveled up. It's leveled my ability to believe

The Power of Environment and Influence

SPEAKER_00 23:33

in my own worth and value and that to really understand that I'm setting the ceiling of how much is too much for me.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

I love that whole story because I was talking with you behind the scenes when you were going through. It was so exciting. And what I also love is the nuance of desire and receiving and worthiness, even, because there is a level of truth to saying you can't receive what you don't believe that you're worthy of receiving, which you were actually wrestling with. But I also love that, in this case, your husband, and also I just think it's the goodness and grace and gifts of God sometimes to not go, I'm going to make you wait until you do believe you're worthy before I'm going to bring it across your path. Sometimes it's like the gift in itself invites us into the expansion of being able to. He doesn't go, I'm going to wait till you've checked all the right boxes. And okay, now you've proven you believe it, you're ready for that. So now you'll get it. I think sometimes God will actually give us things even before we realize we're ready to receive them in order to show us, okay, you are ready to level up. The act of getting into the car and driving it home, it was like physically partnering with the gift actually helped you receive it and healed something with you within you in the process. Sometimes I think we can get into this. Well, when I've earned it, then God will bring it to me. I'll have earned the healing, I'll have earned the worthiness, I'll have earned this. Yes. But in that case, your husband actually gave it to you before you felt ready. It's true. And that in itself helped your heart expand and brought the healing to you. So I love that there's the nuance of sometimes I think it is. We walk through the process and we're ready and then it shows up. And other times it's like, surprise, you don't think you're ready yet. But I'm going to accelerate the process a little bit here by helping you step into something before you think you're ready for it.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I'm so glad you said that because I've even sat with clients as we're doing some of this, you know, expanding beliefs work. And I feel like in this instance, I gave God an inch, like he gave me the mile in return. Which I was open to looking at cars. I was like, okay, I might get a new car in the next six months. But with clients, we notice this. Like, oh, they just opened up in their heart a little bit more to getting more clients. And all of a sudden, two people reached out and they're like, I just barely, barely kind of, kind of open myself up. I'm like, that's all that's what I, that's what I'm hearing you say. Like sometimes you're just partnering a little bit and the goodness of God and the graciousness and just the universe of the law of like, if you are open, it will find you. If I believe a little bit in my worth, sometimes you're gonna open up to the experience and the invitation of that much worth. I was invited into accepting more than I'd ever thought or imagined.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

We we tend to underestimate what we're ready for and what we're worthy of, I think. I was so glad you said that. And sometimes I think we just need God to hold up the mirror, or in this case, your husband to hold up the mirror and go, honey, you're ready for the beamer, babe. Yeah. You're ready for the beamer. Here's the keys. Don't argue with me, be a good wife, do what you're told. He's like, you're driving my car home. And I was like, oh my god. But then by the time you got home, like you said, you're like, oh, this baby's mine. He was like, whoa, what happened? Good luck getting a chance to drive it now. What just happened on that 25-minute drive home? I there's a lot of what you said that I would have told myself too around her worthiness and being willing to ask for what she was worth. But I think what you said, especially uh just now, has sparked something else that I would want to tell her, which is the environments you put yourself in are going to affect you. The people that you surround yourself with are going to affect you. So if you want to grow, we're talking about money, but you could fill in the blank with any other thing that you're wanting to grow in. If you're wanting to grow in your capacity for wealth or worthiness, put yourself in environments where people feel they are worthy or put yourself into wealthy environments. So we have a four seasons in downtown. Um, and sometimes my husband and I will sometimes go like, let's go there for a date night, let's go for, I don't know, dessert or something like that. We just go and sit there because wealthy environments feel like something. Yeah. It has a feel to it. A five-star restaurant has a feel. Now, I'm not making a judgment call on whether it's good or bad. I'm not making a distinction between like, okay, well, if it's wealthy, it's great. And if it's not wealthy, it's not great. But I'm saying if you're wanting to develop your capacity for wealth and your capacity for money, get around people for whom generosity is natural. Get around people for whom making money is very normal to them. Put yourself intentionally into environments, even if you're like, well, I can't afford to rent out the penthouse at the four seasons, but I can certainly go and get my bowl of French fries and uh drink a Coke or something and sit in the atrium area or something. You know, there's places where you can choose to intentionally put yourself into environments. If you're wanting to grow healthier, get yourself around healthy people, go to a gym, your influences affect you. And so that would be one thing that I would have told her because my younger self didn't know how to ask for what she was worth. And she actually had a lot of probably daydreams or longings to walk in greater levels of wealth. But she was like you, worked a lot in ministry situations for either free or minimal, mostly free, and then just relied on support and things like that. And for a while that worked, but she also didn't know how to ask for more. And then even when she was working, you know, regular jobs, she just would take what people gave her. She didn't know how to ask for more. So I'd probably tell her to learn how to negotiate as well, and just put herself into environments to be around people that she really aspired to be like on multiple levels. And I think in some ways I was very blessed and that I had some amazing friendships and people around me at different times that really supported me. But also the associations you have matter. You really do become the average of the five people you spend the most time with or whatever those sayings are. And so if you're wanting to grow in wealth, put yourself into wealthy places and pay attention to wealthy people who embody the characteristics and traits that you like, because not every wealthy person has great character, but also not every poor person has great character. And I don't know that she ever really believed that wealthy people were all bad, but I know that that can be a belief system that sometimes you be like, oh, wealthy people are all greedy or wealthy people are all out to rip you off, or they're scammers, or things like that. But the truth is that money is just an amplifier for what is already in your heart. You can have no money and still be a scammer. And you could be a multi-billionaire and be the most generous person around. So yeah. Put yourself in environments that are going to cause you to level up. That's what I tell her.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

You know what I think so amazing? To me, you are the person that people should spend time with so that their money beliefs level up. Like you've become the thing that you're saying, hey, go find people like that. Like you're the person.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

That is a deep compliment because I can think of very specific people who, when I became friends with them, they very distinctly impacted my money beliefs. I people that I know that are incredibly

Evolving Identity and Self-Trust

SPEAKER_01 30:59

generous. I considered myself generous, but I remember my generosity taking a big step up when I met some people that just took generosity to a whole new level. I felt my ability to believe for just the finer things in life level up when I was around certain people. So you saying that I embody any of those things is a massive compliment, girl. Thank you. I absolutely do. That's what I was like, this is so amazing. I like this episode. This is going good. Let's move on to identity, self-trust, our femininity. Are there any things that you would want to tell a younger version of you around who you believed yourself to be?

SPEAKER_00 31:36

I would want to tell her that she will become many different versions of herself, that who she is is naturally going to keep changing and evolving and developing. And what she does and what she's choosing to do and how she's choosing to spend her time is not who she is. They're just things that she's doing. The sense of her will keep growing, but then she's not what she's doing to really help her separate that because she stayed in places because that was who she was, not what she was doing. So she entangled role and identity. Girl, did she? Did she? Yes, she did. Yes, we did. Um

Embracing All Versions of Self

SPEAKER_00 32:21

she may not even understand the course of her life, the whole journey, say, at certain times. But I want her to know to not give up. And that I feel emotional. Sometimes everyone has to get lost a little bit along the way. And getting lost isn't the end of the world because she will be found and she will come home to herself. I've been sitting with this sense of like 20-year-old des and 30-year-old des and 40-year-old des. And I'm like, at some point, I can just make space and let them all have the dignity and the growth and the choices that they've made, the pain we've felt, the bad decisions we've made, like just like all of it. All of it gets to belong. I had a friend send me this poem. May all the versions of you set flowers upon your table or on your porch, and may you just welcome all of them home to you. I just really loved it because I think that's what I would want my my younger self to understand is that it's such a bigger picture. I'm still discovering who I am. I used to think it was really important for me to know the all the details and who I was, what my purpose was. And I'm so much less interested in that now. Like I'm so much safer to be like, just see how it goes. Like all of my life is about learning more about me, more about trueness of like God's love for me. How I can really live in that love, and how I can heal in that love. And so, yeah, I would just help reframe identity.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I could feel the space that you've created for yourself, even as you said, my my 20-year-old self, my 30-year old self. Really, the picture I even had is they all have a seat at the table now. Yes. None are standing at the door, kind of looking around, peeking around. Is there any room for me? It's like, oh no, there's enough room for every phase of Des' journey.

The Journey of Healing and Growth

SPEAKER_00 34:35

The beautiful, the messy. Yeah, for sure. I think when I was hearing you say that, like they all get to belong at the tables. I lived in Romania in my early 20s, late teens and lived there for about five years. And I was doing a lot of work, but I was obviously a young person, a single person. I was working with mothers, I was working with children, I was pioneering um nonprofits and new work and new ministry things that are still working now. And then I went back for the 10-year anniversary of when we opened this home in Bucharest. And I had had kids, I had three kids at the time. And I remember sitting down in the place that I had worked my butt off to get started. You know, I hung up pictures, I made the beds. I had done all that, and now I was like 10 years later, and there was full of families and women and children. And I was helping one of the moms learn to breastfeed. And I was sitting next to her and I was just in this moment, and I had my own kids. They were playing with all the other kids, you know, in Buchrest. And I just heard it. Nothing is lost. Nothing is lost. There's not any part of what Des did when she was 19, 20, 30, 35, nothing. None of my motherhood's law loss, none of those sleepless nights of rocking my kids. Like everything matters. Yes. Everything belongs. Everything's okay. Yes. We take it all.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yes. Yes. Oh, I love that. And I think that comes with maturity too. I think as we're able to zoom out and kind of go, oh, there's space for every part, space for every moment. Like you said, nothing's lost. I I don't think God wastes

Trusting the Voice of Your Heart

SPEAKER_01 36:20

anything from our lives. There's nothing wasted. Even the detours or the yeah. Oops. I got I got lost. What we think is lost. He's like, I'm using this too. Yeah, it I feel like it invites us into a more of an eternal perspective.

unknown 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Because we can get so hung up on the the minutiae of just the day-to-day sometimes. And it's important too, but it's also in context. That's what I really heard a lot of what you're saying too. If you had some context 10 years out, ooh, there's a different perspective. There's some maturity, there's growth. You're seeing things from a broader perspective. And sometimes that's what we need to just be able to have that little bit of a zoom. And I do think it comes with maturity. I think that's part of the reason it's so valuable to say to our younger selves because it can feel so huge at the time when you're young. Right. You don't have the benefit of hindsight yet. You don't have the benefit of some years of wisdom, some lessons that you only learn by walking the path. I just, yeah. So true. Thanks for sharing that. That's very beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Of course. What would you offer your younger self about identity or self-trust?

SPEAKER_01 37:39

I would tell her she can trust the voice of her heart. That would be a big thing for her. If I could have given her that advice, that would be one nugget that I think could just carry her through almost anything that life has thrown. It's like you can trust the voice of your heart. You don't have to continually outsource your decision making to everybody else. You don't have to constantly keep waiting for permission. I'd probably tell her, probably to tell her to get into therapy really early. Girlfriend, just sign up for the counseling. It is worth it. Just like get in the therapy. It is an investment you won't regret. Um, I probably definitely tell her to that to do that because she was such a helper. Sometimes it was hard for her to be the one receiving help. So because I've been like, oh, that will help you get in touch with the voice of your heart faster. Right. Might save. I mean, it's not wasted. And some of it was painful along the way.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

This feels like one of those fairy godmothers, bippity bobbity-boo. We're like, we're gonna tell you the hacks. Like, therapy for you, therapy for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yeah. Everybody gets a therapist. You get a therapist. You get a therapist.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

God bless good therapists. Amen. When you said that, I thought, what did it cost her to not be connected to her heart? Like what would she have been able to experience if she was able to trust herself?

SPEAKER_01 39:11

So the very beginning thing that I said about my loyalty. I think that being able to trust my heart, I would have made some very significantly different decisions at different times because I was, again, outsourcing the like what would the people want me to do? What will not rock the boat? What will please the most people? What will keep let me feel like I'm being a good girl because I'm not upsetting anyone, what will make me low maintenance. I consider that one of the biggest treasures of my life now is being able to cultivate a relationship with my inner world because it's also a way that God often is speaking to me, too. I can think of some obvious things that I think, oh, I would have taken a different path. There's things that would have affected things that I studied in college and just life career paths, um, places that I stayed that I would have shifted out of earlier. I would have made different decisions about like there's just obvious choices. And the thing that is beautiful is again, nothing's wasted. So I also hold the tension of there were many years that I didn't know how to tune in to my inner world and the voice of my heart. The flip side of that, and the beauty of it, is I also now hold hearing the voice of my heart and knowing what's going on internally with such high esteem that there is nothing that is going to make me drop that again because I have had to carry some of the pain of decisions that ignored or ran over or outright went in the opposite direction of what my heart was saying because I was afraid. So it's just, I see the beauty of it now. And I do think sometimes when something's come at a cost, we hold it more dearly and more closely because we know what the alternative is. So it's like, oh, I tasted that firsthand. I don't want to buy that t-shirt again. This is worth me staying the course.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I love that. I agree. This is not to throw out and be like one pathway would have suited better, but because I learned this

Lessons in Parenting and Motherhood

SPEAKER_00 41:07

way, I treasure what I have now. And I can offer that to my younger self too.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

It feels like wisdom. I think it's like wisdom. You know how people might say it's applied knowledge. I feel like it's just um we forged some things in the fires of life that now we recognize, oh, this is gold. Yeah. Maybe somebody could have handed the piece of gold to me when I was younger, and I may or may not have valued it. But now being being forged in the fires of life, there's certain things that I'm like, oh, the fire burnt up what was straw. So now what's left is gold and the jewels, and they've just been refined. And you know, even you're just talking about that 10-year reunion and things coming back. It's like the benefit of stepping out and having some life behind you. It's like, oh, I actually have some wisdom now. And I know I do. Maybe when I was young, I might have wanted to have wisdom, but there was a lot of life I hadn't lived. Yeah. But it's just a lot of things we didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

I didn't know what I didn't know. I bet you the I always think about this. I'm like, I bet you in 30 years and be like, look at this from her mid-40s. She didn't know. She didn't know some stuff. I'm like, yeah, probably. It's like it's just natural. Just part of life. Yeah. Absolutely. So good. Well, this, I know this is not directly what you were saying, but wisdom sounds like parenting to me. So I'm just gonna go on the next topic. So, what would you tell young Mel just having those two boys back to back and adding in your daughter a few years later? Like, what are some of the things that you would want her to know about parenting her motherhood?

SPEAKER_01 42:42

I think to springboard off of you can trust the voice of your heart, I would probably tell her to put some of the parenting books away. Uh, because I lost my mom at such a young age, I went into parenting a little bit afraid that I didn't have what it took. Like, oh, maybe I I need to read all the books I can. I don't want to screw up my kids. And so I would sometimes be receiving almost conflicting advice because one parenting book would be saying this and another would be saying that. And I was just trying to get it right. And I remember, oh man, I, you know, I feel for this version of me, but I remember when my oldest son was very young, he might have been a month old or so. And I remember one time just he had fallen asleep on my chest, and I was just sitting there with him, and I was just loving the moment so much. And I had this brief moment of like, oh my goodness, I'm probably supposed to put him in the crib right now because he needs to learn to sleep, not sleeping on me or something like that. And I overwrote it. I did sit with him, but I just remember feeling this like, oh, what's the right way? I'm supposed to do it this way. I wish the version of me now could just go and sit with her and say, it's okay, you hold your baby as much as you want, Mama. It's not, it's not gonna mess him up if he's snuggling you longer. It's okay if he's not sleeping in his cot by whatever moments after he's fallen asleep. I see how sincerely she wanted to. To do a good job. I feel for her. That's I think where I feel some of the compassion towards her. Oh, she so wanted to do a good job. She was so conscientious and just wanting to do her best as a mom. And again, if I've I could say, Mama, you can trust the voice of your heart. It's okay that this is what you want to do. The parenting experts have some gems, sure, but nobody's going to know your child like you do. It is okay to make decisions based on what is best because you are the only person who is their mother, and God has given these children to you, so you can trust that.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah. How about you, friend? I would tell younger des, young mom does, that parenting is less about getting it right and then somehow reaping some benefit of getting it right. And it's more about my children are a gift to me in many different ways. And one of the aspects of that is that they will naturally invite me into places that I need to heal. They will show me what's inside of me that's full of shame or afraid or burdened. I think understanding that a lot younger would have really helped me. Just allow for a little less emeshment and a little less codependency and letting them be themselves because I wouldn't have been making so much meaning. Oh my God, this is happening. That must mean something about me. So I'm gonna go ahead and change, change everything and try to fix them or control this or shut it down. And I think it would have allowed for a lot more autonomy for my kids a lot sooner. And so I would definitely tell her that. And I would tell her that motherhood is going to stretch you further than you than you ever thought you could be stretched. And you will discover something so beautiful about who you are and all of that experience. I would tell her, your children are gonna be invited to do the exact same thing, to stretch and to grow because God has paths for them and has purposes and plans and invitations for them. And uh it's safe, safe to let it all happen.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

That's good. I love that you said those things because it makes me also realize something that I've learned, which is letting go of control has been such a big

Letting Go of Control in Parenting

SPEAKER_01 46:36

milestone of God's got them. Control is only really an illusion. I don't ever really control another person. And when we try to control, it's really coming from a place of fear, our own fears. I mean, it's so cliche, but like the let go and let God. But there really are some things that I've just when I've let go and surrendered, it's been amazing the growth and development that my relationship with my children has gone to in another level. And simply because I was like, oh, I'm not I'm not gonna partner with control anymore. I'm not gonna partner with fear. I don't do it perfectly, but learning my own agency and recognizing that they have that as well. I want to demonstrate an atmosphere of freedom for them to grow in. And so that means letting them have consequences or experience the ups and downs of their own decisions. And I want them to learn that when they're with me, rather than being like, okay, you want to wait till you get out in the real world and suddenly have it smack you in the face because your mommy kept such a sheltered environment all the time. You couldn't actually learn anything for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Yeah. Motherhood will invite you into the deepest love that you've ever known and the deepest surrender you've ever known.

unknown 47:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

I'm proud of us because I know you and I know me. I'm proud of the work that we've done to actually be able to show up as, like we would say, good enough parents. We don't have to be perfect, but I do think that we're good enough. And our children are resilient.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Yeah. I I love that. I I feel proud of us too. And I and I actually think that the level of connection that I want to have with my kids is dependent on the level of connection and the healing that I can have internally for myself. But we're what I want my kids to experience and how I want us to have connections is very related and interdependent upon this personal connection. So I I just think that when I work with mothers in general, this is a huge aha because they finally think, oh my gosh, taking care of my heart and learning to support my emotions and my spiritual health has transformed the way I'm able to show up for my kids. And I'm a different person. So I just would encourage, like we said, a good therapist for you, some support, some mentorship, communities where you get care is so, so needed. So, so needed for that deep surrender journey we're all on called motherhood.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

100%. So there you have it, folks. Some words of wisdom to our younger selves. And I just encourage you, feel free to take any nuggets. Add it to your little toolbox of things that you want to incorporate into your life. And even ask yourself, what are some of the things that you would tell your younger self, whether it be yourself from five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago? There is always value, I think, in pausing along the path to consider where I've come from and to consider the lessons that I've learned. I do think that there is value in that. And sometimes in our world and the breakneck speed with which we're living our lives, pausing and reflecting can feel like a luxury that we can't afford. But I would highly recommend just taking some time, grab a journal, grab a notebook, sit with a friend over a cup of coffee or your favorite glass of wine, and consider where you've come from and what are some of those valuable life lessons that you've learned along the journey.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Thank you for being with us on this episode. And um, we wish you all the best on your journey, on your road back home. Love you guys. We'll see you next week. Love you. See you soon. Bye.