#34 – Trusting God With Your Child's Spiritual Journey

This episode explores the complex emotions and beliefs surrounding faith-based parenting, focusing on overcoming fear and control to foster authentic spiritual growth in children. Dez and Mel help to reframe common misconceptions and offer insights for parents seeking a healthier, love-driven approach to guiding their children's spiritual journeys.

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Transcript

Introduction to Fear in Parenting

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Road Back Podcast. We're so glad you're here. I'm Melissa and I'm Desiree. We're two trauma-informed coaches and real life friends.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

If you're returning to yourself, your dreams, or your sense of belovedness, this podcast is for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

We'll pull from our own stories and hard-earned wisdom to support your journey. So take a breath and remember, you belong exactly as you are.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Welcome to this week's episode, friends. We are on part four of our codependency in parenting series. And today's topic is one that Des and I figured deserved its own episode because it's something that we've had direct feedback from parents and listeners on the show. And it's also something that we've seen touch a lot of people's lives. And it's it's been a topic that we've needed to personally work through ourselves to come out of a place of parenting in fear and leaning into a place of parenting more from a place of trust and love. And that topic is concern around our children's eternity and salvation. So if you've grown up in a faith-based home or you or you're a person of faith now and you have children, it there's a natural desire to see your children follow in the ways of God, have a relationship with Jesus, and where are some of the pitfalls we can fall into when we have fear around their eternity?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

How does it show up? If we're really going to look at codependency, if we're going to bring the awareness of what's happening inside of us during certain experiences, I mean it's so natural to notice what's coming up inside of us when it comes to faith and eternity. This is so pivotal to people of faith. This is the cornerstone, like the anchor of our lives. We're not trying to give you parenting advice, so to speak, or what to teach them or what not to teach them. That's not the kind of the lane we're wanting to talk through. We're really wanting to talk about how we can notice the fear motivation inside of us when it comes to our children and how we raise them. I would never dream of telling people what to do around this. And everyone will have very deep beliefs about how to get certain results. And we're specifically wanting to chat about what happens as we're parenting, that we notice that there's a lot of fear and a lot of desire for control. One of the ways we try to alleviate the fear is we try to control.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah. So yeah. And with topics that can have a lot of high-stakes feelings around them, like eternity and heaven and hell and salvation, it makes sense, I think. And this has been a recurring theme for us over the past few weeks is there is so much nuance. Because we love our children, that love that we have for them, if we're not careful, slip into places of fear, anxiety. This feels high stakes. I need to ensure that my children are going to make the right decisions. I want the best for my children. And if we're not careful, we lose the lines between what is my responsibility as a parent, as an individual, and we can start encroaching or infringing upon our own child's journey and autonomy in order to try to get them to make a decision that we want them to make. What we're going to talk about today is a little bit about where does it come from? What are sometimes the motivations behind it? How does it show up in codependent ways in our parenting? And

Understanding Fear and Control in Parenting

SPEAKER_01 3:43

then what are some positive reframes that might be more empowering or feel more trust-based, loved-based, faith-based, as opposed to fear, dread, anxiety, worry-based? You might see yourself in some of this. And so it's just just an invitation for you to pick and choose and hopefully find something helpful in the conversation today. So without further ado, let's dive into some of the underlying factors that can feed fear around our children's salvation. I would start it off by saying a lot of it for me came from the things I was taught about God as a child. And what I was taught about heaven, what I was taught about hell, my own experiences in faith-based institutions definitely fed a lot of fear in my life. And I think some of the motivators that we're going to talk about for me very much stemmed from my own misunderstandings about God's character and his nature.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yes. There's a lot that we have that was given to us. It's like another person's fear of eternity was spoken to us, shared with us in a way it's really not ours. And so this feels like an invitation of like, that's not mine. What is my belief about it? As you were talking about just what you were taught as a kid, I think I would even be a little more general. Like, there was a lot of black or white about God. Like there was like, that's good, that's bad, that's past, that's fail. Salvation, I don't think, is very complex, but our beliefs around God can get real muddy and real like, whoa, my stakes, and we can lose the for the forest for the trees. Like we can lose sight of God on all these little details of things that we should be afraid of or noticing at all the times.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

I remember as a child being very afraid. I would hear different sermons preached or things like that. Like, you need to make sure you have prayed the right prayer or you're gonna go to hell. You better hope you don't drive home tonight and get hit by a car or have an accident because it'll be too late for you. And I remember being terrified. I mean, I responded to multiple what what we would call altar calls as a kid because I was like, Well, what if the last time I prayed the sinner's prayer, it didn't stick? What if that time it didn't work? Maybe I should pray again because I was so terrified of hell and often salvation messages were preached from the turn or burn perspective. Not God is love, but you better watch out because if you don't pray this prayer, you're gonna end up in the lake of fire for eternity and this vengeful, angry God waiting to punish you at any turn. And I actually remember when I first prayed to ask Jesus into my heart,

Responsibility and Confusion in Salvation

SPEAKER_01 6:37

you know, if you use that terminology. I was very young. I was probably about five. But the number of times that I like reprayed the prayer over the next however many years because I was so scared that, like, what if it didn't work because of the things that was were preached from the front? I I it makes sense to me that if I never confronted or challenged those beliefs as that I picked up as a child, that I could just easily flow into parenting my kids from that same place.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah. And this is such a nuanced and incredibly tender experience because most mothers and fathers, they like deeply love God. That is so real. We just love Papa. And we love our kids with our whole heart. And it feels a little blurry because we really want our kids to love God like we love God. And it feels like, what is the responsibility? We almost think that, oh, the job is to make sure that happens. Whereas we're hoping to like open up a little bit of space of what the actual responsibility is. There's still responsibility. And the number one thing I would think about is even in what you're talking about in your childhood, is that we're not using fear as the motivator for our kids to get them to do the thing that we would really like. Hey, I really want this to happen. I really want God and my kiddo to be best buts, to connect and have a relationship. When I was hearing you uh from your childhood, fear was the way they were controlling what you were gonna do. They used fear to make you go and do something. And that I think is very counter to the kingdom of God.

Urgency and Certainty in Parenting

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Let's talk about some of the underlying things that can be driving those fear-based decisions. And I think that they are genuine questions that are worth addressing. Confusion around what exactly is my role in my child's salvation journey? Is it my job to ensure that they are saved? Is that on me? That's a valid question because I would have said the way I was raised, uh, it would have been very easy for me to think yes. It actually was easy for me to blur the lines between taking on my own savior complex. Yeah. Not just with my children, but in general. Like I need to make sure that the world is saved. This is a responsibility that I have. I've really had to take a step back and ask the question: is Jesus the savior of the world? And if so, where does my role fit into that? Uh and and that's across the board of evangelism. And I think I would just submit it. I don't even feel like I necessarily have to answer the question for you, but it is a valid question, I think, to say, is it my responsibility to ensure that my child or my neighbor or my loved one is saved?

unknown 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

I think responsibility is such a subconscious motivator. And I'm so glad that you you named that. And even how I was raised, that somehow there is a a right way of raising a kid, and I could guarantee their salvation if I figured out that right way. And to me, this oh, there's scripture. You raise a child in the way they should go and they should not depart from it. And you're like, well, what's the way? Sort of like that kind of like panic of like, is this the way? Is this the right way? I think that there's a fear that you can get it wrong. And I think that really drives a lot of parenting and a lot of that energetic way of showing up around our kids' spirituality that really will influence it.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

So yeah, and that, and that in turn drives a sense of urgency around a specific outcome and even a desperation if our child is starting to veer away from what we would perceive is the correct path for them, then that can create a lot of anxiety around, okay, well, I've got to make sure I get them back. And how do I get them to make the right decisions, which can spill into some of those control behaviors? Again, coming from a place of I love my child, I want the best for them. Where does it then start veering into me moving into control or even manipulation? Because I feel like I need to know this is important, it's high stakes, I need the right answer and the outcome in the right path. Yeah. It it feels stressful just thinking about how that can feel when we like, oh gosh, I'm getting stressed out just thinking about this. This is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Well, this is this is why I feel like noticing how this can be something that's impacting the way you show up and parent is is so important because often it's what we feel, how I feel about whether or not I think this is certain. It's like a done deal for the kiddo. If this kiddo gives gives me a sense that, oh, I'm certain of their salvation, that I'm allowed to feel good, I can start to feel like I did a good job. And don't get me wrong, people, like there is truly joy in the experience to be had. But also, if mining for certainty is so controlling and driving the situation, it's more about the feeling that I want to have of certainty

Reframing Fear-Based Parenting

SPEAKER_00 11:55

than giving them the time and space to figure this out, to be on a spiritual journey of their own. I want to feel certain. And so that's why I want to control you so I can feel a way. I want this to be all buttoned up and packaged up, your salvation, so I can feel good about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah. And touching on some of the ways it can show up in our parenting around pressuring them before they're ready or before they understand again, so that I can feel safer and better. Uh, it can be using fear. I experienced a lot. Not with my parents per se, but in other Christian environments, using fear is the motivator, the the punishment, the eternal torment, the, you know, you might get left behind. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Don't even get me started on that one. Everyone in the 90s, I'm so traumatized.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Like, you don't want that to happen. And it's like, again, the fear-driven decisions. And I one of our one of our teachers, I remember something he said that really stuck with me as he said, you cannot sow from the kingdom of darkness and expect to reap fruit from the kingdom of light. And that always stuck with me because when I am driving anything from a place of fear or shame or dread or torment, I might be able to elicit an outward behavior. But I can't force a change of heart.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

That is actually the job of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. That's what love can do. Fear as a motivator can get certain results. It can get certain compliance. It can start to create this feeling of like, oh my gosh, there's so much change happening. It's because they're scared to death. And also, if we're working in the in the kingdom of God, love is the best motivator for God. And that the work of the cross and the love of God for us has done everything. Another way this can show up is we take their spiritual journey really personally. I've had that where it was a signal to me if I was doing a good job or not. Yeah. It was like, oh, I'm allowed to feel like a little more confident, a little more safe. And this is this is how shame works because it's a two-way street. So it can make you feel good at times, it can give you a sense of ease or relief. But it can also, on the other side of that, is it can torment you of being like, if it's not going well, what does that mean about you? Right. So you're a complete failure and those stories and the narration around that. And so I think that if you see yourself in that, I definitely felt that pool of evaluating my parenthood through their spiritual experience or my perceived understanding of their connection with God.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yep. So true. So true. And if we're being driven by fear ourselves, then when our children, that little bit older, uh, you know, maybe teenage years, they're starting to ask questions, they're starting to maybe push for their own independence. We can start feeling threatened by their questions and their concerns. I mean, I remember when I was 15 years old and went on a personal journey of questioning a lot of the things that I've taught. And looking back now, I think that was completely normal. I didn't know. I was actually afraid at times to ask questions. And I think that's something that, you know, can happen with parents too, is they're afraid if their kids ask questions, but that stems back to a place where we don't believe that even God can handle our uncertainty and our questions and our curiosity around things. I remember being 15 and really asking God some questions about things, and I didn't hear answers right away. And I had to go on my own journey. And this is true for every person, especially if you've been raised in a Christian home, you have to go on your own process so that you're not just living under your parents' faith, but the faith becomes your own and the connection with God becomes your own. Now, you might experience that from childhood. You might have a connection with Jesus and feel it and it'd be very tangible from childhood. But I also think that it's not unrealistic for many children to be raised in a Christian culture. And this is just the value system and the belief system of the family. And they also have to step out and begin to make things personal for themselves and ask the questions of is this what I want to believe? Is this how I want to orient my life? And I don't think that that's a bad thing, but it can feel very threatening as a parent if your child starts to question and you have a lot of those fear or shame-based hooks already in kind of driving the narrative in your own life.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Absolutely. I think that it's actually crucial if you think about a child's journey developmentally, the relational journey that they'll have with their own faith, it needs time to become personal. We have to go on that journey to for it to become personal. I think that it's a great reframe because that actually, to me, signals this is a good sign. It's a really good sign when they start doing their own little research and why is this and who's that and why does there or this? And I'm just like, oh, it's happening. This is a great time. This is a great signal for me. But you're right, if if we have shame, and the story is that if they do that, I'm failing, then you will show up in a very controlling way to shut that process down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

I I think that you just use the word reframe there. And I think it's a even a great opportunity to share some ways that we can reframe some

Empowering Beliefs for Parenting

SPEAKER_01 17:45

of those concerns into more empowering, more life-giving beliefs because ultimately every parent is wanting to do the best they can. And the more I can ground myself in love and trust and connection to the goodness of God and his heart for me and for my children, I as much as I love my children, God loves them more. Yes. How can I begin to ground myself in empowering beliefs that allow my children to go on their own journey? And it doesn't mean that I'm never going to be triggered into a place of fear or worry about it. I think that's natural, a natural part of being human. But how do I begin to ground myself in empowering beliefs and let go of some of those fear-based narratives that have potentially been driving

Evolving Relationships with God and Children

SPEAKER_01 18:35

the show?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

One of the reframing things that I've done is understanding my relationship to God is a journey, and I'm allowed to be in a relationship that continues to grow and change, and I change, and I'm understanding more about God. With that permission that I give myself, I reframe a lot of how I view my children as I give them a more long-term sense of them. See them in light of eternity and not just in this isolated moment or stage. And that has helped me a lot to be like, I've been in all sorts of places relationally with God. Like this has been a whole thing, you know, teenage des and 20s des and they're allowed to go on that journey too,

Leading by Example in Parenting

SPEAKER_00 19:19

because I've done that work of understanding it. It feels like a safe reframe for even my kids in that way.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

The relationship between me and my children is constantly changing too. Going back to what I said earlier about Jesus is the savior, I think that has been one of the biggest personal shifts that I have learned to embrace over time because I have, in general, throughout life, felt a very strong sense of responsibility. Um, it's just part of my upbringing. It's probably part of my natural wiring. It's very easy for me to slip out of being feeling responsible for myself to feeling responsible for other people around me. And letting Jesus wear the savior cap and then taking a step back and going, okay, then what is my role? Can I lead by example? Can I demonstrate that is something that has been one of the biggest anchor points is how what how can I lead by example? How can I walk my talk rather than just preach at my kids and then potentially be living a different life?

Creating Safe Spaces for Conversations

SPEAKER_01 20:19

I'm sure many of us have seen firsthand people in ministry where the parents could preach something from the pulpit, but the family behind the scenes was a total mess. We've seen people who can talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. That has been something that's been important to me is how do I live as authentically in faith as I can in a relationship with God as I can, so that it creates an inviting environment for my children to ask questions? How can I create safety in my own nervous system and emotional and spiritual health so that it invites conversation because as I've learned to see God as safe, that has invited me into conversation and curiosity with him. And I've realized, oh, Jesus isn't falling off the throne if I asked something because it didn't make sense. Having to ask hard questions, wrestle through things when the outcomes didn't happen the way that I wanted, when humanity happened, when life happened, I've had to walk through disappointments. Being able to go to God and see him as a safe space has created openness and clarity and safety for me to then turn around and create safety for my children. It's very hard to demonstrate something for my kids in any capacity, God, spirituality, emotional, mental health, my nervous system. It's very hard for me to demonstrate it for my kids if

The Journey of Surrender and Trust

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I am not at first recognizing and experiencing it for that, for myself. And so being able to reframe from a place of healing my own relationship in the journey with Jesus has been such an instrumental part of opening up spaces for my children to have questions, to have disappointments, having to wrestle. Through things isn't bad. So good. And I think it builds resilience and grit. And so me learning that it's okay for me to do those things then helps me to create spaces for where my kids and and it lets me be an influence, but the outcome of their life doesn't rest solely on my shoulders. And that's only been something I can let go of as I've rested in understanding the goodness of God that I've had to experience for myself and not just take secondhand from someone else.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Right. When I've surrendered, I've needed to use control a lot less. Yes. And more of this internal work of the more I can feel safe with the surrender. Surrender into what Jesus did on the cross. So the more I can live in that, the more I model

Understanding God Beyond Human Experiences

SPEAKER_00 22:50

that to my kids. Yeah. If it feels too scary to trust God with my kids' salvation, I will more likely control them to try to get them to where I want to be. And I have tried to work on undoing the face of people from the face of God, like the face of my father and the face of your abusers and you know, the face of all these. So my work to do that has deeply impacted my ability to feel safer with God. And then I've showed up as a model and holding that space of this is who I hold God to be. And that impacts a kid deeply. My parents' beliefs of God impacted me.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I love, I love the surrender word. I think that's very true. And it's not forced surrender. It's not, I've cornered you and you can't get away. So you're going to

The Power of Love Over Fear

SPEAKER_01 23:39

wave the white flag or die. Like those are your choices. There's this willingness in surrender that comes from I feel safe to let my guard down. I feel safe to let go. I actually feel safe in your love, Jesus, because you've demonstrated time and again. And that's why I don't think you can overstate the importance of the journey that we go on ourselves as the parents. I will reproduce after my own kind. You know, the if I am grounded in fear, then I will produce fruit according to fear. If I am grounded in love or peace or joy or hope, I will produce fruit after that kind. And that really is an overarching theme today. What is the driving

Allowing Children to Choose Their Faith

SPEAKER_01 24:29

motivator behind what I am doing? And sometimes it's going to be mixed. Sometimes it's going to be love and it's going to be some fear mixed in. One of the reframes I would say is allowing my choose children to choose their faith on their own is absolutely what the kingdom is about. God does not impose and force you to choose him. We've got to be careful that out of our desire for our children to make good decisions, to start pressuring decisions when actually our children need to have the freedom to be able to choose this for themselves. It is very important. I need to choose to engage in relationship with God. My parents can take me so far, but then ultimately

Transforming Prayer from Anxiety to Trust

SPEAKER_01 25:14

that decision needs to be mine. It can't be forced. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Control is not love. Control doesn't equal love. Being anxious about my kids isn't praying for them. I had so much desperation energy when it came to my kids and not just their eternity, their emotional world, their relational world, and oh gosh, I'm worried about so-and-so's and their friendships. I was just anxious all the time. I have come to believe that that's not the energy of prayer that I want to engage for my kids. And I have found a new way, a new way of praying. I pray for my kids, and um I would say it's like an embodied practice. So I actually feel in my body what it would feel like for God to be just loving my kids so much that they're on their own autonomous perfect journey. And father is the perfect shepherd for that journey. And he's got it figured out just like he has my path figured out. He's with me, he's 100% with them. And so when I feel that in my body, that's how I start to talk to God about my kids. I actually feel that that's the most true way for me to pray as a mom now. So similarly, how emotions and beliefs work is like if I believe my kid's not okay, I have a lot of anxiety about it. And that's how I was praying. And so when I believe that God's with my kid, I will feel different. I'll have different emotions and I will talk to God and be with God for my kids in a very different way. It's also helped heal a lot of codependency for me because now they are completely autonomous. They have their own world, their own emotions, their own path. They're allowed to feel what they feel in that world. I'm allowed to feel what I feel in my world. And I did a lot of this work at the beginning as I was uncoupling from my kids. And then I was like, actually, this energy of how I've been praying isn't actually the energy of the truest belief that I want to have. So I would think about embodying what it would feel like if God was really like holding my kids. Oh, I would feel so good to my system, no matter what the experience is, no matter what I'm perceiving about their spiritual life, no matter what I'm perceiving about their financial decisions, right? Their futures. Whatever it is, if I can connect more and more to my highest belief of the truth of that, that feels like I'm a very active participant in my faith.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

And I love that you went through the process because we're not condemning any parent if, you know, you recognize that you're paying, praying a lot of fear-based prayers. It's I love that you shared like this is where I was. And as I've gone on the journey, I've actually stepped into a place that feels

The Journey of Healing and Growth

SPEAKER_01 28:11

more empowering, more uh surrendered, more trust in, hey, God's got this, he's good, he loves my kids, his hands are on their lives. And it feels like a much more um faith-fueled journey. And I love that you've been in both places. I love that it went hand in hand with your mental health journey as well as you learn to heal some of those parts of you that were was were driven to behave this way. Yeah. You were able to detach some of those hooks from the behavior. That feels very inspiring because we are not saying don't pray for your kid. It's just coming back again to what's that motivating factor behind why I'm engaging in the spiritual disciplines that I'm doing for my children. Yeah. And it's it's an important question to ask. And I can still do things that freak me out. Oh, me too. I still get it. You know, across the board. Yeah, across the board. But I think that as

Curiosity in Parenting Decisions

SPEAKER_01 29:08

we can settle in again, to more safety in ourselves, more love. God is good. He's actually so kind, he's so invested in our children's journeys and in our own. Feeding ourselves on the truth of the nature of God has been so helpful. The invitation I would want to extend to this listener is wherever you are on your parenting journey, there's an invitation today to get curious, to begin to notice, okay, what is driving that decision? When I pressure my kids to come to church with me or when I am teaching them about this thing or that thing, like what's driving that there? And is there another way? Is God, what is the aspect of your character that you're wanting to reveal to me as a mom or dad or whoever's listening to this? What are you wanting to reveal to me in this season that is going to impact the way I run my household and my home? There's always an invitation for us. Some of my biggest breakthroughs came when I was willing to challenge the status quo. When I took a step back and I went, okay, is this bearing fruits of righteousness or is this bearing fruits of another kingdom that maybe I don't want to keep eating from? Getting curious and asking yourself these questions can often be that first step in then finding the next resource. I mean, the resources God brought across my path when I was willing to challenge the things that I had always thought were true about him is like he was more than willing to go, here you go. Yes, let me

The Risk of Trusting God's Love

SPEAKER_01 30:50

demonstrate to you who I really am. Because I promise you, however good you think God is, he is infinitely better than that.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

It's true. It is risky to believe just how powerful and how good the love of God is, and how it feels to really trust Him for our children. Like there it is, it's a lot. It's risky. I just wanted to name that because I think one of the whole points of life on earth is for me to discover just how good love is. That love is more powerful than fear. And the more I can discover that and lean into that, for me personally, the safer I'm gonna feel for my kiddos to go on that journey of like really feeling into how love they are. And I see a lot of clients where one of the hardest things for them to believe is that love is not transactional, that they don't have to do something. But I was thinking about like parents, like we're just like, what do we do to figure this out? And it's like it's not transactional. The grace

Transformative Nature of God's Love

SPEAKER_00 32:05

of God is that good. It's so good. Why does fear feel like some something that we use often as a motivator for us? Is because we're like, it can't be this good. It can't just be loved. I can't just trust or I can't just surrender to this love. And that's one of the the practices of my spiritual life now is to allow that love the magnitude and the depth of it just to settle into my life. Would be one of the goals I have for my human, human experience here. Yeah. As brief it is as it is.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Yeah. And that love is so transformative. When I look back over my life and the things God guided me through when I was a hot mess, He's guided me through in things that were very, very difficult. And that is encouraging to know that I I can trust him to guide my children wherever they are. So whether your children are killing it right now and it's feeling amazing, or you're actually in that place where things feel really scary because they're not making choices or life decisions that feel great when we are older and we are wiser, we can often see what's going to happen. It's like, oh, you keep going down that path. That's probably not going to bring you the results you want. And even as we wrap up this whole series, the conversation around codependency with parenting comes back to how can I learn to receive more love and be more grounded

Releasing Control and Embracing Autonomy

SPEAKER_01 33:35

in that place of knowing I'm loved, knowing I'm held, and in turn being able to release my loved ones to making decisions, experiencing consequences, and also staying with myself and loving them from an unconditional place that is inviting them by my life, inviting them into greater levels of wholeness and healing for themselves, and also understanding that our kids have their own lives to live too. And God, God is intimately involved in the process as well. We don't have to do this by ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

I I was just feeling like there may be someone who's listening and they have a lot of grief. I want you to hear that you're allowed to have emotions about what your kids might be experiencing. And I think that truly one of the healthiest things I've done is really let God take care of me and meet me with emotions that I have that come up. Like you're they're valid, they're real, you're allowed to have emotions as a parent about it. And sometimes the stories that we attach to this current moment of our kiddo's lives are so much more suffering for us. It is hard. I just want to validate. There are things that they choose that it's really hard, right? It's hard to love someone and to see them make certain choices. And you're allowed to take care of those emotions and to lean into the rest and the safety of that care of God and God's love and the ultimate picture of Him being in that story and with you at the same time. So I just felt like there could be a lot of people who have some feelings because I'll say I have a lot of feelings about my kiddos. I love them a lot. And uh they're a big part of our lives.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

You're doing a good job. Don't beat yourselves up. Even even if you see yourself in some of this, we've seen ourselves in some of the crazy codependency. And you know what? I think our kids are still doing pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

You know, despite some of us. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

In spite of it. Yeah. I see I see codependence in my parenting every single day. Every single day. Yeah. And I still think I'm lovable and I'm still working on it, and I'm still in process, and it was just like a lifelong journey for me. That's what I truly think about it.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

I agree. Yeah. Lifelong journey. And ultimately, I want to get healthy for me. And I want to get healthy for other people. Knowing that if I'm healthy for me, it will benefit them too. And holding that they also have to go on their own journey in life with God, with their money, with their relationships, with their growth, with their decisions. And one of the things I've heard Danny Silk say is like on a good day, I can control myself. That is where my self-control comes in. It's not my job to control you. And also there's that intimate dance that we we get to work it out on a day-by-day basis. So I hope this series has been helpful that you've had some aha, some insights. Go back and listen to the last three episodes if you haven't yet. Um we dive into different aspects of parenting and some of the challenges we face and hope it's been a blessing to you.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yeah. Thank you for listening, friends, and we'll see you soon. See you soon. Bye.